I love this post and love your friends, especially Daniel. We older writers can't afford to futz around. That's why I'm writing here. Nobody can fire you for sharing your best writing with five readers or 50 or...the number doesn't matter. You still have the well-earned thrill of growing as a writer.
One piece of advice that I heard at a writer's conference that I've carried ever since is, "Don't insult your audience", in other words, if my only reader is my mom or the people who rejected my residency application or even myself, so what? They must be the ones it's meant for. It's frustrating if you'd like to make a living as a writer but I do find it encouraging in terms of just keep creating.
Do you have any advice for how to start building such a community? What are some key traits that make for good writerly friends and partners? Both for finding them and becoming one. You noted honesty over platitudes. Is this tested over time or is it more of a personality trait?
I often see a common thread of community behind good art (especially writing, but not exclusively writing). I live in an area where being a person of faith is the minority and it’s almost easier to find writers than it is other Christians. Having a “cloud of witnesses” that are both sounds like a close scrape with heaven to me. I’m thankful for opportunities to connect with writers of faith online, but long to build an in-person community.
The first thing I would offer, Jayna, is that you can start something like this with one other person. So be on the lookout. It doesn't have to begin as a group.
Key traits I would look for are people who read widely, who can appreciate genres they don't particularly enjoy, who can articulate what they like about a piece, and who can identify strengths/weaknesses without trying to turn it into something that's for them. If that makes sense? It's tough to find, and as the relationships develop, you can begin to see who gives the best advice in some areas while others might be strong in others.
This was inspiring and real. It moved me to take out a manuscript for a novel I started in 2005, but put aside over many years. My daughter (also a good writer like you) always encouraged me to "write what people read--novels!" (I majored in nonfiction books as a writer). So we'll see what happens. Now retired, and I recently gave up my newspaper column writing of 37 years, and my husband says "you'll always be a writer." So we'll see. Great piece!
So grateful for your voice Shawn, to normalize the publishing process, and help folks have their feet more firmly grounded in the reality of the process. I am a couple decades ahead of you, and it's never too late to change or grow, am I right?
It's funny that I replied to your note about the piece before getting to sit down to actually READ the piece! My 98,000 and feeling like I'm starting over feels apt.
Every revision so far -- first draft in third, second draft from third to first, then to first with multiple pov, then same with better structural balance, then another with less info-dumping... and now I'm -- without burning the whole thing down -- back to third person, condensing and blending exposition and somehow writing, not an entirely new story, but a very, very different one.
Many days, my half-finished second novel with much better structure and a clearer vision to start sure looks enticing, easier to wield into what I know it can be.
But this novel, I know, deserves better and I want to give it that.
Do I regret sending out nearly 100 queries when I was sure that I was sure that I was done? Maybe sometimes, but the other times I think it's the feedback (for I was fortunate to get more than I expected) that made me look much longer and much harder, not just at the work, but at this long game of the writing life and work.
This is great. I haven’t had this kind of group since grad school, and I miss it. Substack feels like the closest that I’ve had since then, but as I indicated in my half agreement to your last newsletter, I worry that online tends to move in the direction of encouragement or attaboy , more than what you describe here.
But these pictures look like what I’m looking for.
This group is unique in that they have a way of encouraging the writer in me to keep going while also pointing out or asking questions about things that aren't working. It seems easier to take this from people who are already friends, so I think that's part of the setup that matters. And maybe as we accumulate years here on Substack with the same voices, we'll grow comfortable in asking for and receiving that kind of feedback.
Great post. I've been tinkering and tinkering and tinkering with my novel for eight years and although I can feel it edging closer to done and I'm determined not to put it out there until it's really polished properly...dang, it takes some self-discipline!
I guess the other side of the coin is the question, when do we stop polishing? My writing career advanced in a big way once I committed to finishing things. It's a hard balance to find.
Okay this is so random, but I saw Maile mention Stanford in her post and I got so excited. When I first read this post, I’d had a feeling that b&w photo had been taken at the Bluebird but felt silly asking 🤣 I just had to come back and make the connection.
That sounds like a great group, and a wonderful tradition! We writers need to stick together—the work is lonely enough, so we have to encourage each other as much as possible.
Committed to the story. That is the kind of writer I want to be, too. Not committed to publishing (though I would try and it would be nice). Not committed to success of some definition or other (though that would also be nice on some level). But committed to breathing a world and characters into life and then empowering them through every creative faculty I have to LIVE. It is LOVE. Love for the story, love for the characters, love for creating all the way. There is a liturgy for writers of fiction in Every Moment Holy, vol. 1, that invokes imagery of God creating the earth and everything in it and breathing his own life into humans and equating that to what writers of fiction are doing when they write and revise and shepherd a story to its fullest potential. It was what I found most meaningful about writing my book and what makes me want to do the revision process—I have breathed life into that world and those characters and I LOVE them and want them to be all they can possibly be on their own two feet.
As for how I feel about revision, I don’t know yet because I haven’t gotten that far yet. But I just started medication to begin treating my newly discovered ADHD, and I am already noticing a diminishing of the overwhelming task paralysis. I’m hopeful that as life settles down a little and I get the ADHD under control maybe I will FINALLY be able to sit down and do the revision process.
And finally, having that writerly camaraderie…gosh, do I miss that so deeply. It was what I loved the most about our 9MN and RVE groups. To have people who got to know you as a person and a writer and who could prompt you along on the right path for your story but also to improve as a writer. It’s a close knowing that can really only happen with the right people at the right time, and I miss it.
I love this post and love your friends, especially Daniel. We older writers can't afford to futz around. That's why I'm writing here. Nobody can fire you for sharing your best writing with five readers or 50 or...the number doesn't matter. You still have the well-earned thrill of growing as a writer.
Yes, yes, yes. The number does not matter. Shout it from the rooftops!
One piece of advice that I heard at a writer's conference that I've carried ever since is, "Don't insult your audience", in other words, if my only reader is my mom or the people who rejected my residency application or even myself, so what? They must be the ones it's meant for. It's frustrating if you'd like to make a living as a writer but I do find it encouraging in terms of just keep creating.
Thank you for sharing these words.
Do you have any advice for how to start building such a community? What are some key traits that make for good writerly friends and partners? Both for finding them and becoming one. You noted honesty over platitudes. Is this tested over time or is it more of a personality trait?
I often see a common thread of community behind good art (especially writing, but not exclusively writing). I live in an area where being a person of faith is the minority and it’s almost easier to find writers than it is other Christians. Having a “cloud of witnesses” that are both sounds like a close scrape with heaven to me. I’m thankful for opportunities to connect with writers of faith online, but long to build an in-person community.
The first thing I would offer, Jayna, is that you can start something like this with one other person. So be on the lookout. It doesn't have to begin as a group.
Key traits I would look for are people who read widely, who can appreciate genres they don't particularly enjoy, who can articulate what they like about a piece, and who can identify strengths/weaknesses without trying to turn it into something that's for them. If that makes sense? It's tough to find, and as the relationships develop, you can begin to see who gives the best advice in some areas while others might be strong in others.
Thank you. This is helpful!
This was inspiring and real. It moved me to take out a manuscript for a novel I started in 2005, but put aside over many years. My daughter (also a good writer like you) always encouraged me to "write what people read--novels!" (I majored in nonfiction books as a writer). So we'll see what happens. Now retired, and I recently gave up my newspaper column writing of 37 years, and my husband says "you'll always be a writer." So we'll see. Great piece!
I'm so glad to hear that, Melodie! Dig into it and enjoy it.
So grateful for your voice Shawn, to normalize the publishing process, and help folks have their feet more firmly grounded in the reality of the process. I am a couple decades ahead of you, and it's never too late to change or grow, am I right?
You do indeed have some good friends...
As always, thanks for traveling this journey with me, Jody!
It's funny that I replied to your note about the piece before getting to sit down to actually READ the piece! My 98,000 and feeling like I'm starting over feels apt.
Every revision so far -- first draft in third, second draft from third to first, then to first with multiple pov, then same with better structural balance, then another with less info-dumping... and now I'm -- without burning the whole thing down -- back to third person, condensing and blending exposition and somehow writing, not an entirely new story, but a very, very different one.
Many days, my half-finished second novel with much better structure and a clearer vision to start sure looks enticing, easier to wield into what I know it can be.
But this novel, I know, deserves better and I want to give it that.
Do I regret sending out nearly 100 queries when I was sure that I was sure that I was done? Maybe sometimes, but the other times I think it's the feedback (for I was fortunate to get more than I expected) that made me look much longer and much harder, not just at the work, but at this long game of the writing life and work.
It can be tough for me to know when something is finished, or at least when it's as good as I can make it.
Reading this reminded me of this piece from Alice Elliott Dark: https://open.substack.com/pub/aliceelliottdark/p/back-to-blank?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=566tg. (She is an amazing follow btw, esp for writers!)
Wow, that's really interesting. Hmmm . . .
Thank you for sharing this Lauren -- was a helpful read for me, today.
This is great. I haven’t had this kind of group since grad school, and I miss it. Substack feels like the closest that I’ve had since then, but as I indicated in my half agreement to your last newsletter, I worry that online tends to move in the direction of encouragement or attaboy , more than what you describe here.
But these pictures look like what I’m looking for.
This group is unique in that they have a way of encouraging the writer in me to keep going while also pointing out or asking questions about things that aren't working. It seems easier to take this from people who are already friends, so I think that's part of the setup that matters. And maybe as we accumulate years here on Substack with the same voices, we'll grow comfortable in asking for and receiving that kind of feedback.
I see @sethhaines here but of course he is.
Great post. I've been tinkering and tinkering and tinkering with my novel for eight years and although I can feel it edging closer to done and I'm determined not to put it out there until it's really polished properly...dang, it takes some self-discipline!
I guess the other side of the coin is the question, when do we stop polishing? My writing career advanced in a big way once I committed to finishing things. It's a hard balance to find.
Okay this is so random, but I saw Maile mention Stanford in her post and I got so excited. When I first read this post, I’d had a feeling that b&w photo had been taken at the Bluebird but felt silly asking 🤣 I just had to come back and make the connection.
How do you know the Bluebird?!
I went to GoodLit Writers Retreat there, last year, which is put on by Wedgewood Circle. It was a lovely week, and I can't wait to return sometime!
That sounds like a great group, and a wonderful tradition! We writers need to stick together—the work is lonely enough, so we have to encourage each other as much as possible.
Very true.
Committed to the story. That is the kind of writer I want to be, too. Not committed to publishing (though I would try and it would be nice). Not committed to success of some definition or other (though that would also be nice on some level). But committed to breathing a world and characters into life and then empowering them through every creative faculty I have to LIVE. It is LOVE. Love for the story, love for the characters, love for creating all the way. There is a liturgy for writers of fiction in Every Moment Holy, vol. 1, that invokes imagery of God creating the earth and everything in it and breathing his own life into humans and equating that to what writers of fiction are doing when they write and revise and shepherd a story to its fullest potential. It was what I found most meaningful about writing my book and what makes me want to do the revision process—I have breathed life into that world and those characters and I LOVE them and want them to be all they can possibly be on their own two feet.
As for how I feel about revision, I don’t know yet because I haven’t gotten that far yet. But I just started medication to begin treating my newly discovered ADHD, and I am already noticing a diminishing of the overwhelming task paralysis. I’m hopeful that as life settles down a little and I get the ADHD under control maybe I will FINALLY be able to sit down and do the revision process.
And finally, having that writerly camaraderie…gosh, do I miss that so deeply. It was what I loved the most about our 9MN and RVE groups. To have people who got to know you as a person and a writer and who could prompt you along on the right path for your story but also to improve as a writer. It’s a close knowing that can really only happen with the right people at the right time, and I miss it.
You're right, Amber: it is about loving the story.
You run with some good folks.
That is the truth.
Thanks for reading, Linda.